Square Talk
Welcome to Square Talk, a podcast exploring the people, principles and purpose of Freemasonry.
Through open and thoughtful conversations, we look at modern Masonic life: friendship, charity, service, leadership, personal growth and the values that continue to shape the Craft today.
Each episode offers listeners a glimpse into the wider Masonic journey, from the work carried out in our communities to the traditions, symbolism and ideas that inspire members to become better people. We will hear from a range of voices, reflect on different experiences, and explore Freemasonry in a way that is accessible to members and non-members alike.
Square Talk is produced with respect for Masonic values, UGLE guidance and the privacy of Masonic ceremonies. We do not disclose confidential ritual, private proceedings or matters unsuitable for public discussion.
Subscribe and join us for thoughtful conversations from the heart of Freemasonry.
Square Talk
Episode 21. Why join Freemasonry?
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
In episode 21 we look back at an interview i conducted last week in front of an audience of people who are thinking about joining the Freemasons.
Welcome to all of you and thanks for listening to this episode 21 of Square Talk for discussion, debate and information on Freemasonry.
SPEAKER_05I'm your host Richard Barnett and in this episode we listen in on an interview that I did last week with some of those who run Freemasonry in Leicestershire and Rutland. This was all done in front of an online audience of people who were thinking of joining our organisation. We held this over Zoom where we asked for questions from the audience to be sent in for me to put to the team, along with a few of my own that I threw in to keep the panel on their toes. I hope you enjoy it. And without further ado, so what I'm going to do now, I'm going to hand over to Peter Kinder. So Peter Kinder is the head of the uh Freemasons in Leicestershire and Rutland. Peter, would you like to say a few words?
SPEAKER_10I would, thank you, Richard. And good evening, everyone. Um, it's so nice to see you all uh face to face, as it were, on the uh on the screen this evening. And um I'd like to welcome all the prospective members that that we have on the screen tonight. This meeting we regard is extremely important, in fact, probably one of the most important meetings uh that we can possibly have because it includes you and those brethren who are along supporting you this evening. Um I say most important because you guys are part of the future of Freemasonry in this province. Um regard it so important. Uh and hopefully the content will keep your interest for the next 45 minutes or so, and uh hopefully you'll go away a little bit wiser than you were before you came on on screen this evening. Um, we hope now, all of you, that it won't be too long uh before you will be initiated into our fraternity and therefore become members amongst us. And I won't dilate on the reasons why, of course, in a number of your cases it hasn't yet happened. Um, but uh let's hope now uh we're definitely on the downward slope, and it won't be too long before you're fully fledged members uh of uh this province. Um this year, for the first time in 300 years, the United Grand Lodge of England, which is our governing body based in London, issued an annual report. And you might think, well, that's no big deal. Well, actually, it is quite a big deal because we've never ever done one before. One of the things, or one of the main objectives we have as a as a as the Freemasons of, well, worldwide really, but particularly of England and Wales, is we want to be more open uh and more descriptive about what we do and who we are. And uh we feel we feel this is so important because Freemasonry has been uh hidden, if you like, uh in the dark passages uh for some years for reasons that I won't go into now, but some of you will be aware uh that Freemasons were persecuted during the Second World War by Hitler, and that's one of the reasons we went from portraying ourselves down the streets with with our regalia on to open civic buildings and lay foundation stones. Um we then went underground after that persecution, and now we're trying to be a lot more open. So black ties are now hopefully uh a thing of long past gone by. Um, but uh I don't want to keep you too long because we need to get on with the meeting. But what I would like to do is to tell you that not only was the annual report the first ever in 200 years as part of this of us being more open with the general public, but also we've written for the first time a mission statement, which again has never been done before, and I'd like to read it to you, if I may. And it goes, we're a unique members' organization which has thrived for over 300 years, having no political or religious affiliations, we comprise the members of all ages, races, religions, cultures, and backgrounds. We gather in our individual lodges throughout the country where we have ceremonial traditions which encourage us to be more tolerant, more respectful, and act active and actively to fulfill our civic and charitable responsibilities. We also make time to eat, drink, and meet together and form lifelong friendships. So, with that, uh welcome again. Great to have you with us. Hope you enjoy the next 40 minutes or so, and I'll hand back now to Richard. Thank you, Richard.
SPEAKER_05Thank you very much. And uh just to we're gonna you know keep this, keep this moving, keep this engaging. We've got questions I'll introduce to the panel in a moment, but before I do that, I'm just gonna play you a short video. Um, the short video, when I say short, it is short, it's only two minutes long. Um, and this is a good introduction into Freemasonry.
SPEAKER_08Freemasonry is one of the oldest social and charitable organizations in the world. But what does it mean to be a Freemasonry?
SPEAKER_01It means something different to everybody, and that's what's good about Freemasonry. It's unique to those that that join.
SPEAKER_00It's that feeling of togetherness or belonging. There's more that brings us together and separates us.
SPEAKER_12The friendship, the formality, the ritual, the curiosity, the opportunity to learn more about Freemasonry every day. You learn to be tolerant and and accept uh all others uh as being your brothers.
SPEAKER_00It offers an ability to do a lot of public good.
SPEAKER_08There are around 250,000 Freemasons in the UK and a further six million around the world.
SPEAKER_07I'd always been curious about becoming a Freemason, and what surprised me was that Freemasons were actually quite open and honest about their membership. I went in and it's been an absolutely fantastic journey ever since.
SPEAKER_08People become Freemasons via many different routes.
SPEAKER_09I was in the pub, and uh a few friends had come in with suits and funny suitcases, and I asked them what's it all about, and they they told me a little bit, and I said I'm not strangling chickens or whatever it is you do. Um anyway, I'll give it a go, and eight years later I thoroughly enjoy it.
SPEAKER_08Our members come from all walks of life.
SPEAKER_00We're from so many different backgrounds, from bus drivers and tradesmen to actuaries and lawyers, accountants. You know, I'm really proud of that.
SPEAKER_08Famous past members include Sir Winston Churchill and George Washington, writer Rudyard Kipling, and scientist Sir Alexander Fleming, actors Peter Sellers and Oliver Hardy, and singer Nat King Cole.
SPEAKER_07I went into it with uh an open mind, um, and I'm glad I did because I've thoroughly enjoyed the experience ever since.
SPEAKER_05There we go. Um, hopefully that that gives you a uh a good insight, a good introduction if you've not seen it already. What I'd like to do now is just introduce some people to you who most of you will not know. Um the the first um firstly we have a communications group which consists of myself. My name is Richard Barnett, I'm the communications and training officer for the province. Also, in that group, we have somebody you've just heard from. So we have Peter Kinder, who's the head of uh Less Shear Multon Freemasons, and also on the panel we've got Paul Wallace. Paul Wallace is known as our provincial grand secretary. Um, so you you will meet him uh an awful lot. He's a good bloke to know. Get on his right side. Uh we have Dale Page. Dale Page has a couple of roles in the province. He's our um he's our mentor and he also runs the 2022 uh festival. You say hi, Dale. Good evening, brethren. Or good evening, gentlemen. You can tell this isn't scripted. Um, we also have David Hayton. David Hayton is our almonder who looks after uh people in need uh within the province. You can say hi as well.
SPEAKER_12Hi, yeah, good evening, Brett. No, not brethren, is it? In issues. Brothers to be.
SPEAKER_05Evening, Britain. Um, and uh lastly on the communications group, but by certainly no means least, we have Phil Caswell, who is the chairman of the Leicester and Rutland Masonic Association.
SPEAKER_13Good evening, uh gentlemen. Great to see you all.
SPEAKER_05We also have with us as well a couple of other gentlemen. We've got Mark Thompson O'Connor, who is our membership officer, who many of you may have already met or spoken to. Good evening, uh gentlemen and brother. And lastly, just to surprise him, we have our uh assistant provincial grandmaster, Andy Green, who is also on screen as well. Good evening, now first of all, uh I've written myself down a bunch of questions to ask you guys. The reason that I wrote these questions down is because we've had some come in already and they're all around a particular theme. First question is a nice easy one. So a nice quick answer, please, if you can, because I'm gonna ask ever all of you. I'll start with you, Peter. Why did you decide to join the Freemasons in the first place?
SPEAKER_10Um, well, quite a simple answer, really, because my father and my uncle, my godfather, my brother were Freemasons, and um uh it was their influence, I suppose, that that interested me. I saw them going out in the evening with uh dinner jackets on, smart suits, camering cases, and uh I uh that started my interest. And uh I said to my mother, where are they going? And she said, You don't you worry about that, dear. And that was uh that was 40 odd years ago. And um, I mean, uh I have to pinch myself sometimes when I wake up in the mornings and think uh, you know, where I went from my initiation in in 1973 to where I am now, it's just been an incredible journey and uh I've loved every minute of it. I honestly have. I mean that it's not it's not marketing speak. Uh I I genuinely love my Freemasonry and everything about it, and and and definitely the people that are in it, they're great guys.
SPEAKER_05Thank you. Uh Paul, what what was your reasons for joining?
SPEAKER_14Very, very similar. Um, I was um proposed by my father, seconded by my grandfather, and although I didn't know it at that early stage, it ended up that I was initiated by my uncle. So it was a real family affair. Um so very similar story to Peter. Um in those days you had to ask, or certainly in London Masonry, yeah. I tried I I started in London. You had to ask in those days, you had to approach somebody. So uh and I've the same as Peter, I've never looked back. And I again exactly the same as he says. You know, I I look at what I do now and the things I get involved in, absolutely fantastic. Um, it's been a fabulous journey. Um, and uh I'm so grateful to dad and granddad for for getting me involved.
SPEAKER_05What about you, Phil? You've been in uh quite a while as well. Why did you join?
SPEAKER_13Yeah, it's over 20 years since I um uh uh was first initiated. I really it was a time when in work I realised my social circles had become a bit limited, and I wanted to expand it. And and one of my good friends through work uh was a Freemason, and he'd suggested it to me as something that I might enjoy. Uh uh, and just at a particular point I thought, yeah, I'll I'll ask a further question. And he gave me a bit more information, and and like like Peter and Paul, it yeah, I never looked back and uh uh it's kept me sane.
SPEAKER_05And speaking of keeping sane, Dale.
SPEAKER_03Thank you very much. Um, those of you who do know me will find it very hard to believe that I tend to frequent public houses. And um I used to see chaps I knew and friends walking into the pub at 10 to 11 just before closing and staying there till about half past 12. And I thought, I like the sound of this. So I started to uh started to ask questions and and um and just as Peter said it, you know, it all went from there really. And uh so it all started with pub blokes coming into the pub at 10 to 11.
SPEAKER_05And was one of those blokes you, David, by any chance? What why did you join David?
SPEAKER_12Well, I can say that Freemasonry found me because uh I got no connection with Freemasonry. Got a very good friend who uh was a Freemason, and um we've been to one or two of their socials, and he uh he said, you know, this is just the sort of thing that would suit you, and you'll and you'll flourish in Freemasonry. And he was absolutely right, because that was 20 years ago, and I've had a brilliant journey ever since, that's which is where I'm sitting now as uh provincial armory, which I'll talk about a bit later.
SPEAKER_05Um thanks, David. I'm just gonna come back to you, Peter, on a point, if that's okay, because you've mentioned why you joined. Um but why have you stayed a member?
SPEAKER_10Oh, that's a good question. Why have I stayed a member? I I think probably not for the reasons I joined, really. Uh as I say, I did I was influenced uh by family and uh close friends uh of my parents, um which got me uh into major, as I said. But I I I think it because of the way it's developed and developed me as a as a person over the years, and I've learned a lot from Freemasonry. Um, I learned a lot from the history of it. And I I have to say, and David will vouch for this because we were uh schoolmates together. Um, and uh yeah, history wasn't my greatest subject at school, but I don't know whether a lot of you could can can sort of recognise this view, but but I I started to get really interested in in history after I left school. I I hated it at school, and I got really interested in it. And of course, Freemasonry is has got a phenomenal history, and it's not just the building of King Solomon's Temple, there's so much more to it, there's so much allegory and and history of old in Freemasonry, and that's kept me interested. Um, and of course, uh we don't need to get into it now, but one of the first things I I joined was uh was the Royal Arch, which is the the next, you know, what should be the next step on from craft masonry. And the history of that is just and and some of the the ritual and words in it are just amazing, and uh you know, and as as you progress and you make your daily advancement in Masonic knowledge, you you know, the more it's a bit it's a bit like one of those video games, you know, the more you eat up, the more you need it, it's it's it's that type of situation.
SPEAKER_05And and bearing in mind, I've got your CV on my screen in front of me, so you can't lie. How how long have you been in in Masonry now?
SPEAKER_10I joined in uh 1973. So have a long way as well. 50 years into in 2023.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, the the year I was born was when you're in the well, there you are, you see.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, I I you you wouldn't believe it looking at me, would you? I look so much younger.
SPEAKER_05But but you but so you've been in for a long time. So uh what have you got any regrets?
SPEAKER_10Um no, I haven't really, no. Um I haven't. I can't think of any. And I'm not just saying that, I really can't. It's just been it's just been as we has been said a few times by the other guys, it's just been a great journey. And uh, you know, I think it's made me a better person, there's no doubt about that. It's certainly uh I mean, I was a reasonable, confident person anyway, in my early 20s, but um it certainly gives you a lot of confidence, particularly with um, you know, uh after dinner speaking and and and and learning ritual and presenting ritual, you know. I mean, uh, you know, that that's just been wonderful. And I it and also it it makes you enjoy the after proceeding so much more. I think I mean for those of you guys listening that that are in in sports and have played sport, uh, you know, rugby was my game. And after you know, after I'd had a good game, and you know when you've had a good game of whatever sport it is, you know, when you've played well, and it makes the beer taste a lot better afterwards. Uh and that's the case with Freemasonry. Once you've done a piece of ritual or you've you've had a good evening and enjoyed it, then the the the the party afterwards, the festive board afterwards, it makes it a lot more enjoyable.
SPEAKER_05So we we talked about you know the pub, or certainly Dale talked about the pub, and um you know we've we've generally got a lot of friends. So I'm gonna ask you, Dale, because you started on the pub theme. So when you tell someone who is not a Freemason what it is that we do, so when they ask, you know, where have you been and what have you got that case for, uh, what do you say to them?
SPEAKER_03What do I say? Um the truth, basically. Yeah, I I I tell them the truth. I tell I tell them that it's not a secret. I tell them that I'm proud to be a Freemason. I tell them about all the good work that we do, all our charitable, charitable work. Um we used to we used to have a phrase in Freemasonry to describe to describe what we do, uh our principles, if you like, as brotherly love, relief, and truth. Um, which to be honest with you, even I didn't quite get never really got my head around. But now, thankfully, um we now we now for clarity refer it as integrity, which is if you like, about building good people, friendship, as we all know, which is it it's getting getting on with our with our friends, uh, respect, which is building unity between our friends, and and charity, which is is all about building compassion. So I think that what uh what I would say is just tell tell people the truth. It's it's not a secret, we've got nothing to hide.
SPEAKER_05David, what's your opinion?
SPEAKER_12Well, exactly. I mean, exactly the same thing that you you tell people that the truth about what it is. I mean, not only do you get a load of enjoyment out of it, but um you uh you've got to stay with it, um, and you get out of it what you put into it, like any organization that you get involved with. But you you get a brilliant lot of friends. I mean, that's one of the things that I've found that uh you get friends that stay with you forever. And I mean I was I wasn't a sporty person, as Pete would know. I was more into the drama, and um no change there. Sorry, so then no change there, then no, absolutely none of that at all. No, no, no. But you you enjoy the ritual and the ceremonies. Um and it does, it helps you develop as a person because uh I've seen people that have come into Freemasonry that have been a bit shy and timid, and provided they've stayed on the track and followed the route or the uh the path through way, they they've really improved in confidence, particularly as they've gone masters, it's been brilliant.
SPEAKER_05Thanks, David. And you know, tonight's all about you guys and to give you answers to questions that you might have. And we've had a question come in, and uh one one of our expert researchers on the panel is Andy Green. And you don't know this is coming, Andy, because it's just come in. So we've had a question come in, which I'll be surprised if you know the answer to, but I'm gonna give you some time to find out to challenge. Uh, is there this is from William Bentley. So is there a record for the longest standing, I guess, serving Freemason? Uh how long?
SPEAKER_11I will come back. Yes, there is. Um, more recently, I'll get back to you in in a couple of minutes on that.
SPEAKER_05I knew you'd know.
SPEAKER_11I have a sneaky suspicion it's 80 years. Um, but I'll come back in a minute on that. Thank you very much for William for that one.
SPEAKER_10Uh uh, one of our past uh heads of Leicester and Britain Freemasonry, Gayton Taylor, who we lost in April uh 2020, um, he was uh hit, I presented him with his uh 70th certificate, 70 years in Freemasonry. So uh Gain was 94 when he died. So he he did uh I'm not sure whether that's the longest in the province, Andy. Maybe you can check that as well. So the longest serving in the country and then the longest serving in the province, but certainly 70 years is is way up there, isn't it?
SPEAKER_11Yeah, so I've just put in a link into the chat um from a recent article in in our magazine called Freemasonry Today, um, which is Marcus McCloyd, who celebrated 80 years in Freemasonry. Um, but I I'm not sure of our own province, uh 70 years since I doubt whether we've had anybody 80.
SPEAKER_10I I think Gayton would have um would have taken a bit of beating, wouldn't he? Uh I mean what was he, 71 or 72 years in the end.
SPEAKER_03And not to forget, of course, the the tragic loss of the Duke of Edinburgh, who must have been pre-election for for uh for getting on for probably 70, 78.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, that's that's a good point, yeah. But yeah, it would have been, I bet it was 70 years, yeah. I bet it was.
SPEAKER_05Oh, thank you. You answered that rather quickly, Andy. So now this is just challenge, Andy. If anybody else has another question which you think can't be answered, put it in the chat box and we'll see if we can we can get that for you. Um what so charity is a big thing, which gets mentioned in the video quite a lot. And um how much time and money do we, the Freemasons, give to charity in general? Phil, can I ask you that?
SPEAKER_13Oh, certainly, uh Richard. I think, well, first of all, charity, and I um certainly for those who uh who are present who have been at the previous um new candidates evening we had will have heard me mention this is charity. Forms an important part of both the ceremonies that you will go through and it will be explained. It's not necessarily just about putting money in a tin and just you know leaving it to sail on its merry way, it's about understanding what charity means within a Freemasonry concept. Um, charity plays an important and integral part of everything we do, um, uh and understanding that. And in particular, that could be in all forms of fundraising, whether it be through a straightforward raffle, through a in our lodges, to people doing parachute jumps, um cycle rides, or indeed, as we will be doing later this year, uh, a challenge walk undertaking the Leicestershire round in in early October. Um, and it and it and it's about not only looking after Freemasons and looking after their families and the like, but also looking to support local non what we call non-Masonic charities, so those charities that sit outside of that. So community transport groups, young people's groups, groups to support the elderly or people that are less able, uh, people who need to access food banks, uh, um, right across the piece. So last year, you know, the the Leicestershire and Masonic Charity Association gave grants of over £110,000 to about 56 local charities right across the piece. Um, so uh uh it's something that is is almost like the the lettering through a stick of rock is that uh if there was a rock made of charity for for that for Freemasonry, should I say, charity will be something that runs right through the middle of that. And and um, you know, that I'll make no apologies for when at some point, as I do, when I hope to meet all of you, uh, and will be asking you to support us in some charitable endeavour. Please do so because what we do in combination has a massive effect on the communities of Leicester, Leicestershire and Rutland.
SPEAKER_05Thank you. Uh thanks, Raul. And some people say, rightly or wrongly, that charity should begin at home. So what do we do to support our own members? Uh David, that's your your realm of expertise.
SPEAKER_12Yes, yes. I mean you heard me say that uh I'm a provincial arminer, and um a lot of people don't necessarily say, What well armor, what does he do? I always remember a uh young Mason talking to me and when I explained, and he said, Oh, your HR and welfare. Well, I actually mean nowadays welfare and well-being, because that's really what we do. Um every lodge has got uh uh I'll call him a welfare officer for a want of a better word, rather than just arming up. And we do look after our own. Um you've got brethren who need emotional support, they fall ill, their families fall ill, and that's one of the things, of course, that's important with the uh the the brethren that you look after your your own by keeping in touch with them, understanding when they need support. Um, but it goes further than that because one of the things you've heard charity being mentioned, uh and it is a cornerstone of uh Freemasonry. We have a association in London called the Masonic Charity Foundation, um, which in my role as provincial armina I uh work very closely with. And if you've got a brother, um family member or a widow who's uh a widow of a brother, uh who's falling on hard times, they're ill, they need support, they've need medical support, then we're there to support them. So yeah, it does begin at home, and there are significant amounts of uh money that's set aside for it. And locally our gods uh we we will provide support to brethren as well. And if you uh when you get any lodges again, your charity side comes out because the the brethren can always um help out a brother, whether it be visiting him or with so yeah, John Phil mentioned one and I mentioned it.
SPEAKER_05Okay, thank you, David. Um thank you for that. Now let me come to back to you, uh Pete. I'm just asking you quickly, because you touched on it at the beginning about Freemasonry and where it came from. You mentioned uh you mentioned the war. Why but why do you think there are so many un you know untruths in the press around who we are and what we do?
SPEAKER_10Well, I'm pleased to say that that's changing and and and and that's what we're really working on. Uh and and our uh CEO, David Staples, based at our headquarters in London, it hasn't had a lot of press. I mean, a number of you on the screen uh may have seen him um outside uh Windsor Castle just after the death of his Royal Highness the Duke of Edinburgh, who who was somebody mentioned earlier was a Freemason, uh maybe of 70 years standing or thereabouts. Although it's fair to say he wasn't particularly active, but he kept his membership all those years. Um and and David Staples was there um outside Windsor Castle being interviewed on the BBC and and saying the sort of things that I was saying earlier, that we are more open now. We do want to tell people who we are and what we do. You know, we do, as Dale said, we do a lot of good things, and as as as Phil and David said as well, you know, we do a lot of good work. Um and we, you know, I mean it might sound ridiculous, but we are good people and and and we are made better through through our membership of Freemasonry. And that's something that, as Dale said quite rightly, we should shout about, telling the truth, you know, that's what we are. Um, you know, that's what we do, and uh we're proud of it and proud to be Freemasons. And I I think you know, the headlines are changing now. The headlines used to be well, Freemasons who, you know, have rolled up trouser legs and and and have funny handshakes. Um I mean, now they're saying the Freemasons who support charity, the Freemasons who are, you know, now being more open, the Freemasons who now have got, as we have here, uh, a lot of younger men uh wanting to join. I mean, we've got over a hundred um Masons waiting to be initiated in this province, and we've got 50 odd of them on the screen tonight, which is fantastic. And that's replicated all over the country. Um, so our membership is is on the up. And I I do believe that it's it's part of the reason for that is the fact we are more being more open and people are not sniding at it and thinking we're you know we hide in dark corners with cloak and daggers and and and strangle sheep and all that stupid nonsense that's been said. But of course, what happens is if the press don't know and the public don't know what we do and who we are, then they're gonna make things up. And for years we've done nothing about it. There was a big, I won't go on, but a big article in uh advert we took out in the press about a year ago, big headlines of the Telegraph, the Times, the Mail saying enough is enough. And we just got sick of it. And David Staples was behind that press um marketing campaign and said, you know, we're not gonna stand for this anymore. We're not gonna be accused of strangling sheep and drinking goats' blood and all that sort of rubbish, you know. And and we've been very open, and that's that's that's basically a nutshell, in a big nutshell, the answer to your question.
SPEAKER_05Thank you. Thank you very much. Hopefully, nobody's disappointed that you don't get to strangle sheep, but I'm afraid you don't. Um, I just I want to focus on the individuals a minute because we've got a lot of chaps on screen now, and and you know, they think about what about me? So, Dale, let me just ask you something because everybody should have been, you know, had at least one or two conversations and they will have talked about a time commitment. Uh, what would you say to those who are unsure about this time commitment?
SPEAKER_03Um very good question, and I would say think very carefully. Um again, honesty, transparency. You will hear, and we still hear, unfortunately, people talking to other people regarding Freemasonry and Masons saying it's only three or four, it's only three times a year, or it's only four times a year, or or whatever it may be. Gentlemen, that's rubbish. It's not, you know, and you might as well know now, and you need to have your eyes open. We have rehearsals, we have, of course, our ceremonies, we have our um social evenings, we have committee meetings for when when you know when you've been in uh uh in the organization for slightly longer. So it is time consuming, but it can be as time consuming as you want it to be. Um there's another phrase in Freemasonry called knife and fork masons, which a lot of and there's and a lot of a lot of our members, substantial number of our members turn attend our meetings because they want to enjoy the fellowship of their fellow brethren, they like to have a meal together, they like to have a drink together, they like to have a chat, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. And those type of those types of brethren tend to go to four or five meetings a year, maybe, perhaps the odd rehearsal here and there. Equally, there's people like the people you see on this screen that are regularly involved in freemasing three, four times a week. So I think what I would say is just be honest with yourself, be honest with uh you know, be honest with people you talk to, find out what the time commitment is, be honest with yourself, what sort of time commitment you're prepared to give, and and at the end of the day, it's a decision for the individual. You must make your own mind up. Please don't let anybody make your mind up for you.
SPEAKER_05And stay on your feet, uh Dale, because I'd also like to ask you about attracting new members uh as well. So, what more are we going to be doing in the near future to ensure that we attract you know the right people to Freemasonry?
SPEAKER_03We have a we have a system within Freemasonry, uh, which you may or may not be aware of because called the Members Pathway, which is like is a is a collection of guidance procedures for lodges to to follow um with regard to attraction and engagement with our uh with our members. One of the most important parts of that pathway is the initial stages. Um of you may have already gone through an interview process, others may not have, but will shortly. I cannot stress enough the importance of that process for both sides. Um and again, it's naive to think that Freemasonry is for everybody. Everybody is not for Freemasonry, and Freemasonry isn't for everyone. It's very important to find out whether Freemasonry is for you and your family, your wife, your partner, whoever it may be, before you join. Um, we are doing a lot to to engage with and attract future members, but it's very important that we that people have their, I use the phrase again, eyes wide open. Um, and we have the openness and the transparency that that interview hopefully is done in your home environment with your with your partner, your wife, or your girlfriend, or whoever, both uh present. Um, you know, it's very important that we establish right from the word go whether Freemasonry is for you and you're right for Freemasonry. The last thing that a lodge wants to do, and the last thing that you want to do, or anybody wants to do, is to join Freemasonry, and then six months later find that it that it's not for them. So what we're doing, we put in a in a range of procedures for lodges to follow, for men to follow. Um, and hopefully at the end of the day, we we we all achieve the right outcome.
SPEAKER_05And let me let me put a similar question or the same question to you, Mark. So, Mark, you are your membership officer. Uh, once we're attracting people, you're heavily involved in the interview, interview process. What more are we doing now than we used to do to ensure we get the right type of person into our lodges?
SPEAKER_02Um well, certainly in in this uh the the modern technological world that we we certainly I see a lot more people coming to us via the um United Grand Lodge website than via our own website. Um however it's still important that we um uh we we attract the right people, as Dale says, um from uh within the circle of the membership who who know people who they understand would be probably the right kind of person to be a Freemason. Um certainly some of the people on the screen that I've spoken to when they've come to us through the uh the website, for example, um, we've had quite lengthy conversations about uh the commitment that's required for Freemasonry, how important it is that um there is a balance between one's personal life, one's work life and one's Masonic life. And I I think sort of going through um the checks and balances to make sure that people that the Freemasonry is the right thing for the individual, as well as the individual is the right person for Freemasonry. Um, it is how we we try and ensure that we get the right people um uh to come and join us. It isn't for everybody. Um we all accept that. Um it is something that we want everyone to enjoy and get the most out of, and that takes a level of commitment and a level of interest and willingness to to um keep up that that involvement and that uh and that interest um uh throughout throughout the Masonic career. Um but but as Peter said earlier, we're we're also um a lot more open. Um we we've stopped sort of uh letting people say things and we we've we've taken the initiative and pushed back and we're now um more sort of I think more widely um acknowledged or noticeable in in both the the the the national community but on a local level as well. You can pick up the the local newspapers in in most communities and you'll see articles about the kind of work that local lodges do and that provincial lodges do. So um there are there are lots of ways that we are out there in the public domain and making ourselves known to potential candidates, but we it is still important for both those potential candidates and for um Freemasons in general that um, as Dale said, we attract the right people and the right people want to be part of our society.
SPEAKER_03I think Richard, if I can, just one final point on that that it's worth making, that that when we when we when we say the right people, we're not, and it is a we're not looking for a certain type of people, we're not an elitist organization, we're not saying the right person has to be this or the right person has to be that, has to do the right job, has to have gone to the right school, for god forbid. You know, we are looking for people who want desperately want to join Freemasonry. And when and when we say the right person, that's that's really what we mean. People who are desperate and want to join Freemasonry for the right reasons. Um you know, I just I want to make that point. We're not looking for the right person because he does a certain job or right person because he, as I say, went to the right school. It it's it's it's proper people who want to be proper Freemasons.
SPEAKER_10Sorry, Richard, can I I know you want to move on? I'll just add to that, and I I absolutely 100% support everything that Dale and Mark has said. And and just to emphasize this sort of openness again, and I referred earlier to the first um annual report in 300 years and and the first mission statement, I I mean a lot of this openness has come about uh by research that we've done. And very quickly, two years ago, um, the research showed that one in ten people might, or one in ten men, um might be interested in being Freemasons. When when we did the same survey last year, it was one in four. So clearly, you know, we are being more acceptable um as as uh as a society to join. And as Dale said, absolutely crucial. You know, it isn't what school you went to, how you well you're educated, whether you're a professional or I mean, some of you may have seen the um uh the documentary uh inside for information that that that Andy and I and a few others were on. And you know, I said at the beginning of that, you know, you can be anything from a high court judge to refugees collector, you know, and that came out, didn't it, in the video as well. Somebody mentioned it in the video at the beginning. You know, that that's it's the right people, not there's no school, there's no army, there's none of that that goes into being selected or or accepted as a member. That's really important.
SPEAKER_05Let's just talk about the benefits for a moment. I'll probably uh direct this to a few of you, um Peter, Phil, and and Andy as well. What what are the benefits of becoming a member? We've talked about charity, we've talked about talked about lots of different things, but what's in it for you? What's in it for me? You know, what what's in it for all these individuals on the screen? Uh Andy, what would your what would your uh two pennets be on that one?
SPEAKER_11Yeah, I think we've um it's already been discussed. I mean, um personal development um and learning about oneself, I think is been really critical for me. Um, you know, growing as a person, becoming much more confident. Uh and one of the other things that I particularly like about Freemasonry uh around the charity side is the way that um you know we we put money into a pot that then it gets distributed to lots of different charities, not particularly my favourite charities, um, but these are um means tested um charities that um you know need support and help. So I I I quite like that idea that my money's going to help things that I probably wouldn't necessarily consider supporting uh if I was just giving some money to a charity.
SPEAKER_13Phil, what would you say? I I th I'd echo firstly what Andy said there. I think it's also about being part of something that's bigger than you as a collective thing. And and and you know, but Freemason for me is best summed up by you know what I experience on a typical lodge night. And you know, I'll arrive you know in preparation for a meeting at around 5:30, and from then until when I leave uh around 10 o'clock in the evening, my head is in one place and it's in Freemasonry, and the everything that I've been doing in terms of work or family life or other stresses and worries are left outside of that door, and I'm completely absorbed into that. And it's a great, great way of clearing your brain and having a uh a time just to sort of really, really you know, appreciate and just look at things slightly, and then as you're driving home, you might be then thinking about other things, but invariably you're like thinking about what a great night I've had. I've never regretted any night I've had as a Freemason, it's been brilliant because I just come out of there with my brain cleared, the stresses and worries, and I can really sleep well, and that's nothing to do with alcohol.
SPEAKER_05And have you anything you want to add to that, Peter?
SPEAKER_10Um I agree absolutely. I I mean one of the key things we say, um, and I'm sure Mark has said this to all of you in one form or another, that you don't join Freemasonry for any peculiar benefit. You know, it's not for financial gain. Uh, I mean, I've heard people say, Oh, I joined Freemasonry because I I wanted to network, I wanted to meet people that are going to help my business. Well, you know, that's not the reason to join Freemasonry. It's not LinkedIn. It doesn't, you know, okay, there are certain parts of LinkedIn that you could use um, you know, akin to Freemasonry, like building friendships and meeting new people, but it's not about developing your business contacts. You know, that that really is not uh is not what Freemasonry is all about. I'm not saying it's never happened. I'm not saying that um, you know, we don't use one of our members uh who happens to be a roofer to do our roof at London Road. I mean, we have done that, but I mean that's not the reason he joined to be a Freemason so he could do our roof. Um, it just you know, we would we would obviously get he would go out to tender like everybody else would, um, Masons and non-Masons alike. So I think that's important. I think Phil's point was a great one, and I absolutely identify with it that when I go into that lodge room, I don't think about anything else. I mean, it you know, I run my own company for many years, and and uh, you know, I managed to fit my Freemasonry in, um, you know, which I'm I'm I'm very fortunate to be able to have done, to do the amount of Freemasonry I've done. But you know, working and running your own company, you know, there's a lot of stuff going on, as everybody will know. And when you walk into that lodge room, it disappears. Uh, those of you who play golf, it's a bit like golf. When you're on a golf course, I know occasionally our minds go and we duff a shot or whatever, but you know, when you're on the golf course, you're not thinking about work or you shouldn't be, and certainly you're not in in Freemasonry, and that that's a real big plus for me.
SPEAKER_05And let me just round Up these uh this series of questions here because we've all we've all been in lockdown for far too long, as as long as we can remember. Um what are you missing the most about going to lodge? And I'll probably come to all of you just for a quick one on that one. But Paul, can I start off with you? I know you're missing it. What are you missing the most?
SPEAKER_14I think that it has to be um I mean I'm you miss the camaraderie. You can just tell from what's going on around the screen how much and how much we all enjoy, all those have spoken, how much we all enjoy, how much we've all refer to the camaraderie, the friendships you make, the lifelong friendships you make um in this um in this organisation. Um I do miss the ritual. I'm uh we do we do do little sort of our rituals, they're they're little playlists that um illustrate um you know each stage of the masonry as you go through it. Um and I miss that. The ritual is terrific. I really enjoy it. Some people don't enjoy it as much as I, but but I really enjoy that. Um the good thing about about about not the good thing, but one of the things about the the lockdown is that at least we've been able to continue with our charitable activities. I mean some areas of our in some areas of our of our charitable activities, we've actually made more money for our charities during this period than if we were all meeting. So that's that's been uh so so so that's one thing that that I haven't missed because we've been able to do it online. Um but no, if I if I actually give one answer, it's gotta be the camaraderie, it's gotta be all that meeting the lads who haven't seen them for three months, you know, and then having a having a nice meeting and then having a nice meal and a couple of drinks and then uh having a chat. Yeah, camaraderie is number one for me.
SPEAKER_05Thanks, Paul. Mark, brief word from you, what you're missing?
SPEAKER_02Uh probably Paul's sense of humour, I think. Um I I I totally agree with with what Paul says. Um I mean, I I was originally in Manchester, Mason, and I moved down to to Leicester and Rutland in 1999 uh with work and didn't know anybody here. I quickly uh went and visited a local lodge, and all of a sudden, after 20 odd years of being here, now I have got an absolutely massive um circle of metonic friends all across the county. Uh and it's just fabulous to be able to get together, do what we do, and and enjoy our company, each other's company. And of course the uh the sheep and the goats.
SPEAKER_05Thanks, Mark. Anything unanimal related, David? Anything?
SPEAKER_12Yeah, it's Mark's alluded to it. It's visiting. And I've got uh friends in other lodges and uh that have not been able to go and visit, see their ceremonies, see their uh new initiates going through their ceremony and all the pleasure that they get from them going through it and everybody else supporting them. It's uh yeah, I'm looking forward to heading down to Lutterworth to uh visit with John.
SPEAKER_05Thanks, David. Uh Andy, anything that others haven't mentioned? No, friendship, I think. Brilliant, thank you. Nice and short and sweet. Phil, even shorter.
SPEAKER_13Uh sound. The sound of a the the the a Masonic meeting has a particular um sound to it, uh, and series of sounds that you will hear, and it finishes with the hubbub, noise, laughter, and chatter of a festive board. And by Crikey, I miss that. I really miss that.
SPEAKER_05Dale, can you be as poetic as that?
SPEAKER_03Uh no, I can't really, but I would echo the sentiment uh of everybody. I mean, I think uh uh uh it's not like poor to be funny, but uh that's so that was the first thing that I missed into it. I mean, but that seriously that does sum it up, you know, the the camaraderie, the visiting, the the friendship. Um I mean I I mentioned earlier that a lot of my friends were Freemasons before me, but I have met people through Freemasonry that I would have never met if I hadn't been a Freemason. Um you asked Peter what if you've got any regrets. My only regret is that I didn't join Freemason Freemasonry earlier. Um and but but as far as missing it, yeah, the camaraderie, the friendship, the festive board, that's the the dinner that we have afterwards, dining together, drinking together, um, and and all the talking rubbish that we do about football, about rugby, about all sorts of things, you know, and just just basically the camaraderie.
SPEAKER_05Peter, last word from you on that one.
SPEAKER_10They've covered it very well. Uh, we just miss it like hell, and uh it can't come back fast enough for me. Uh it really can't. And I think I speak for everybody, and not just the guys on the screens, but you know, uh that have spoken tonight, but all our members, and and one of the fantastic things has been, if there's been anything fantastic during COVID, has been Zooms. And you know, who would have talked about Zooms? And you're on mute, you know, and all that stuff that's gone on. And I mean, it's been amazing, really. It's really held us all together. Um, we've we've we've seen each other's faces, uh, and we've kept, as Paul said, the charities kept going, you know, we've kept the messages going out to the province. It's been a tough time, frankly, for for all of us who are responsible for running the province, you know, to keep the plate spinning on the sticks is is the phrase I've used since last March. Um, but you know, it can't come soon enough for me. Uh, let's get back at it.
SPEAKER_04And that's it for this episode. Thanks for listening and keep subscribing until next time.
People on this episode
Podcasts we love
Check out these other fine podcasts recommended by us, not an algorithm.
