Episode 1: Leicestershire and Rutland Freemason Open Day May 2025

We take a look back at the successful Open Day held this May at Freemasons’ Hall in Leicester — where we opened our doors to the public for a rare glimpse inside. I had the pleasure of speaking with a wide range of visitors and participants, including curious members of the public, brethren from the Widows Sons Masonic Bikers Association, and members of Women’s Freemasonry. It was a fantastic day of conversation, openness, and shared curiosity about who we are and what we do.

Before we dive in, a quick note — you may notice that the sound quality in this episode isn’t quite perfect. As this is our very first podcast, I’m still learning the ropes when it comes to production and editing. But stick with me — the quality will only improve from here, and I appreciate your patience and support as we grow.

Transcript

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SPEAKER_05 0:01

Hello and welcome to the latest edition of Leicester Square. My name is Jason Plothier and I'll be taking you on a new adventure with the Square and Freemasonry in Leicester and Leicestershire. Today is the open day of London Road, where the public have been invited to come and have a look around the provincial headquarters of Freemasonry in Leicestershire and Rutland. I'm sat in the home's lodge room amongst the portraits of the past provincial grandmasters. Today I'll be chatting with members of the public who have come to have a look at Freemasonry and the provincial headquarters and to inquire what Freemasonry is. So, without further ado, let's introduce our first guest. Welcome back. I'm with Gwyn and Joe, who have both been wandering around Freemasons Hall headquarters here in Leicester. And I'd like to just ask you what prompted you to come today's open day. Joe, if you'd like to start.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

Sure. I have come to Leicester about nine months ago. And I've been uh as I go up and down London Road, I've noticed a lodge. I used to be a member of St. Godrick's Lodge in Spaulding a few years ago. Um and I've been meaning to pop my head in. And since you've had an open day, I thought it is an ideal opportunity to come. And as a matter of fact, my friend Gwynne, my rev my minister Gwyn Davis has has kind of nudged me to come in as well because I've been feeling a little bit sort of, you know, um unsure. But uh I decided to take the plunge and come back.

SPEAKER_05 1:41

Oh that's that's excellent. So you you you mentioned Reverend Minister Gwynne, who sat here to my right hand side. Hello. Hi, how are you?

SPEAKER_07 1:50

I'm very well, thank you, yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:52

So we've already had a uh a chat about your thoughts about Freemasonry already, and I just wondered if you could uh enlighten us a bit more about why you've come and what your thoughts are.

SPEAKER_07 2:04

Well, first I I I think we came in um purely because I have a love of architecture and art, and the building is incredible. Uh and also an interest uh family history of Freemasonry, and that's I think that's what prompted me to come in. And also to perhaps explore uh the common thread between uh Freemasonry and Christianity, this search for the truth, uh a search that we will spend our lives on and never find, perhaps, but by aiming upwards and aiming for the truth, I hope we can all improve both ourselves and those around us.

SPEAKER_05 2:55

That sounds um absolutely up our street. It's it is. We talk about we talk about uh the idea of improving ourselves as we move through Freemasonry, and I know Joe, you're or you've already gone through your third degree in Spaulding, and so you understand that that that ritual part. Um Quinn, you you mentioned earlier on uh that there's a commonality, a connection that you saw between Freemasonry and how you see uh that religiosity, that the the idea of faith. Um even though Freemasonry isn't a religion. Can you just explain how why you think there is that connection there, how the the that that what would that do for you?

SPEAKER_07 3:48

I think throughout history circumstances change, but I I would argue that humanity remains the same. And I would therefore argue that although things are completely different in the modern world, um the problems faced by the ancient Greeks uh and the early Christians uh they still dwell within us all. Um and again I I I think the modern world has become almost a veneer when judged by the outside. Um whereas we're not often encouraged to really open our I suppose open our minds and open our our hearts in this greater search. And I think the mystery of it all is we'll go wrong, we'll stumble, but I I I think in Christianity, as we always say, we we do our best, we stumble up the hill.

SPEAKER_05 5:02

Uh it's not an easy journey, we don't really know where we're going, but we're aiming upwards, and I think that's quite a telling uh reflection of Freemasonry in itself, that we are always making progress forward and we're always making progress to a better place. What do you think to Freemasons Hall? You're saying you have an interest in architecture.

SPEAKER_07 5:27

Absolutely stunning. I I think even from the outside, when we walked in, uh the gentleman who greeted us said, you know, on the outside is relatively plain, and I think in comparison to the interior that that might be the case, but um I think it's still almost a beacon as we travel out on London Road of uh a well-maintained uh heritage building, and to come inside it's just absolutely stunning. Um a little opulent for my non-conformist taste, but uh glorious all the same. I don't know what do you make of it, Joe.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

Are you no very impressive and the um the the museum is fascinating? Absolutely stunning. Uh some of some of the the the the workmanship that's gone into the artifacts is second to none, you know. Um I I think you could get lost in in this building.

SPEAKER_05 6:33

I think I think many people have got lost in this building on many occasions, and but I think you're right, the the museum is an extraordinarily good example of artifacts uh that are in Freemasonry. And I believe it's um an amazing representation of all the um different parts of masonry and the steps along the journey. I'd like to thank you for your time this morning and uh wish you well in your journey and look forward to seeing you as and when. Take care now.

SPEAKER_08 7:08

Bye bye.

SPEAKER_05 7:13

And we're back again, um, back in the homes lodge room, um, and I'm surrounded by leather clad uh bikers. Um of course I'm talking about the Widow Sons. Um I have Cullen, John, Gary, and Dave with me. I'm gonna let them introduce themselves and who they are within the Widow Sons, um, because they have some unique unique monikers, I would say. Colin, if I could start with you.

SPEAKER_04 7:45

Yeah, hi, I'm Colin. I'm the president.

SPEAKER_06 7:48

My road name is Papa Beer. So I'll take it from my son who's known as Beer in his rugby team, so Papa Beer is the natural variation thereof.

SPEAKER_05 7:57

That works for me. John.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

Um I'm John, I'm a member of Rutland Lodge in Meltmowry, and my uh handle is Habibi. I spent 20 odd years working in the Middle East, and Habibi is Arabic for close friend, which fits perfectly with Freemasonry.

SPEAKER_05 8:14

Um Gary.

SPEAKER_04 8:15

Yeah, hi, I'm Gary, I'm the uh Vice President, uh road captain of the Widow Sons. Uh road name is Dumpty Dog, due to my love of hot dogs, and when I sat on a fence it broke, and they just left me laying there. Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 8:31

Fraternal friendship as always.

SPEAKER_04 8:33

Oh yes, it's leave him there till we take a photo.

SPEAKER_05 8:36

Dave, hi.

SPEAKER_06 8:37

I'm David Dave. Uh my road name, oh sorry, I'm the arm with that thing with the Widow Sons. Um my road name Shui, which is sort of like a it's just a short version of my surname, but also linked to helmets. So hence Shui.

SPEAKER_00 8:54

And the fact that he wears crocs. I think I think we'll be on rolling my bike.

SPEAKER_05 9:00

And welcome to the Widow Sons podcast. Um and it but this is I think indicative of the Widow Sons in general, would you say, brethren, um, in terms of the fact that it is a brotherhood on bikes, as it were. We were talking off, we were talking off Mike about it being an association rather than a lodge. And I know um uh Gary that you were saying that you're the road captain. What does that mean? And if somebody's listened to this podcast who's not a Freemason and felt like, oh, I'm a biker though, what's this all about? Tell tell me what that means for you.

SPEAKER_04 9:40

The road captain, I love it. We I organise the rides, make sure everyone gets there safely, gets back safely, um, everyone stays together. And um yeah, it's just uh make sure everybody's bike. If someone turns up on a bike and looks like it's falling apart and they won't be joining us, everybody's safety is in my hands, and so and I enjoy it. Um we do share the riding sometimes. Colin takes a little lead sometimes. Um if I'm working, John will lead. So it's not exclusively to me. However, if I'm there then I will lead. So the bikes we have a mixture of bikes, and we just we ride and we look out for the man behind us. If he's not behind us, we don't turn, we wait. So we all join up and all get together at the same time.

SPEAKER_05 10:37

It's a definition of brotherhood. Oh, 100%. It's a definition of brotherhood.

SPEAKER_04 10:41

100%, yeah. We leave together, we arrive together, and we get back together.

SPEAKER_05 10:46

I've I've noticed on the national website, which um I've had a pleasure of looking through recently, and um Habibi and I have been in communication for the last couple of years through the uh Leicester Square publication. Um the charity side of what you guys do is phenomenal.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

I wonder if one of you would like to explain or well one of the main charities that we look after is Lifelig. Lifelight is a national charity which I believe has an office in the basement of UGLE anyway. Um and um the it supports lots of children's hospices all around the country, and it's for children with uh life-changing or life-ending conditions, and it provides um IT solutions to allow them to communicate and enjoy their environment better than they otherwise might have. Um the the chairman of the group is um Tony Harvey, who's based in Nottingham. Tony Harvey's big in scouting, big in Freemasonry, uh, and he goes all over the place promoting both. Um but he's also an honorary member of our chapter um of the Widow Sons. And him and his wife Diane uh come to our meets regularly. Um, the Widow Sons nationally, around about 1,300 people. Um here in Leicestershire and Utland, about 43. Uh, but of those 1,300 people, um, we are Platinum partners with the Life Lights Charity. Platinum Partners means that about four years ago, the Widow Sons promote uh committed to providing £20,000 over four years, and we met that figure within eight months. So we're now about 17,000 pounds into meeting our second platinum partnership for life lights. So that's the main charity we we we promote within our chapter and within the nationally, but we also give to other local groups as well. So, for example, as a as a group here in Leicestershire, Rutland, we visited Devonshire Court uh several times, we go and spend time with the residents there. We took Easter eggs down at uh Easter and we've done that for a couple of years. Uh we also do um uh larger regional Easter egg runs for kids, under underprivileged kids. And at Christmas we do uh a toy run. Um and we we provide toys to a it's a local pub that does a a um uh a drive for um toys for again underprivileged kids. Um as a chapter we all turn up one day with a whole collection of toys and give them over to the to the pub for them to distribute as they wish to see fit. No, we we don't look for for thanks for it or for a big publicity out of it, but it's just a feeling of doing something good, that that Masonic heart that's in us all.

SPEAKER_04 13:32

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we just recently my wife took 30 Easter eggs to a local dementia cafe in Soiston, and uh then she realised why we do it after she gave the eggs over to the gentleman in charge. He l he literally burst into tears. He's never seen that generosity, and she felt so good about it. She was like, now I know why you do things like that. Because we give us it to us.

SPEAKER_05 13:59

It's who we are.

SPEAKER_04 14:00

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 14:01

Dave, you you said you're the ominour of the chapter of the of the masons of the chapter, as it were. Um what does what role does that involve? And if somebody was listening to this from the outside who really doesn't know much about about masonry as it as it were, what what's your role in this group?

SPEAKER_06 14:20

I'm I'm I'm fairly new to the role. Um I'm learning learning on a way, but it's obviously taking care of care of the members of Windows, uh, be emotional or just just someone saying thanks for something and if you've done something wow. So that's what I think from the time. But I just wanted to go back because I'm I'm fairly new within the Widow Sons. I I wasn't I was part when it became a lesser. And the Widow Sons was also very much part of the science journey. I I I joined when I was an entered apprentice. And the Widow's Sons supported me with my own knowledge, obviously I'm from my character for each one of them. Your your degrees, the different degrees. That's my thought. Um one of the proudest moments was when I became a Master Mason was being presented with the Widow's the full widow sons. And and it's it's all about that brotherhood. And and so being an almaneral is is very much just an extension of what you do as a member of the Widow Sons, if that makes sense. It makes perfect sense. We look after each other.

SPEAKER_05 15:47

Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

SPEAKER_06 15:50

Fruitcake? Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:51

Yes, I've heard about fruitcake.

SPEAKER_04 15:55

I've got my own one for birthday.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

One of the great things about the Widow Sons, it's promoting uh Masonry within the biking community and biking within the Masonic community. Um, and as Dave alluded to, we wear a square and compass patch on our on our cuts, and we are essentially the public face of Freemasonry. But when we go out, we're wearing this in public, and the general public at large, it's one of the few times they see the square and compass being worn in public, and we quite often do get non-masons walking up to us in the street and asking us questions. Uh, we we go to local bike fest tomorrow, the chapter is going to the rugby uh bike festival, and they'll be wearing their cuts. And we we've had uh several non-masons and Freemasons come up to us and say, Oh, didn't know the Masons did that.

SPEAKER_05 16:42

So, just to uh allude to the word cuts, it's the um the leather waistcoat that you wear, and I have to say, listeners, that the the cuts that I'm seeing before me are amazing, and each one is tailored individually to the person because each of the badges uh represents something unique to that one person, and I think Dave, you alluded to the fact that you were given your um widow son patch, which is you proudly wear on your cut there, um, and you all have the Leicestershire and Rutland uh widow son patch over on the top left-hand side. Um I think what you were saying there, Habibi, is is really important. The fact that the the community between not just Masons and bikers and bikers and masons, but non-masons who come who may be listening, um, who are bikers, they share an affinity.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

Well, we're we're we're more than happy for non-Masons to come out and ride for us to experience our our company and experience the warmth and friendship which Freemasons should characterize everywhere. Um, and we've had several uh members who've joined Freemasonry through coming out for rides with us. Um, we have um one member who lives over in Loughborough, and he joined Freemasonry because he came out for a ride with us on one occasion. A friend brought him along, and he liked the warmth and friendship that much that he decided he wanted to become a Freemason. He was inspired by the people that he met and the warmth and friendship that he had and he joined. Um and going back two years, I remember we had a father and son who used to come along and uh attend our rides, and they both decided to join. They joined a Nottinghamshire Lodge, but they joined Freemasonry. Um, both both scouts historically, so they joined a scouting lodge in in Nottingham. Um and it as Dave said, when one of our members takes a step in their Masonic career, we turn up with our cuts and we support them visibly as a Freemason in whatever they do.

SPEAKER_05 18:46

I I have seen this, and it is phenomenal when we see many brethren in suits and their regalia to see a number, and it is always a larger number of widow sons turning up in their cuts and regalia. It is phenomenal, it it truly is.

SPEAKER_04 19:05

And um 15. Sorry, I had 15 turn up at my initiation. Yeah, it's it's great.

SPEAKER_05 19:12

And it is that brotherhood, and it is it's a genuine brotherhood, and it it has we we we're moving into a new world of uh where we have a diverse range of masons, and we have a diverse range of bikers that come in into our into your fraternity as bikers and the fraternity of uh masonry in general. Well, brethren and widow sons all, I'd like to thank you for your time. Uh thank you for your uh patience in waiting, and I look forward to speaking to you on another occasion. Take care.

SPEAKER_04 19:47

Thank you very much. Thank you. Take care.

SPEAKER_05 19:51

Um welcome back. I'm joined now by four ladies, and the idea of Freemasonry being only for men uh is an anathema. It doesn't exist. There are two Grand Lodges for Freemason uh Freemasonry for women, and um I have the honour of being joined by two members of the Order of Women's Freemasonry and two uh members of the public who have come in to have a look at uh Freemasonry. I have Angela I have Albina and Banu who's given me permission to call her Auntie B. And so for the rest of the uh conversation it will be Auntie B. Um but Albina, what brought you to Freemasons Hall today?

SPEAKER_03 20:37

Well, um I suppose I came here by chance. Uh I've saw something I I saw uh an advert. I signed up for it, I was sure I want to come. Uh I got an email. I meant to be going today today to Skaganist, but I cancelled my plans, moved it to tomorrow, and I said no, I need to come for this. Uh I wanted to see what it is, how it works, or what uh people like uh because um I live in this city and um I I I'd love uh to see Leicester prosper and in for in order for Leicester to prosper you need to do it together with other people that have the same values, same morals as you. So it just uh coming here and checking out uh what are the further uh steps um how we can go forward with uh improving our communities and societies and um previously researching about um uh Freemasonry, um it's something that uh you do, you help out communities um and you you do great deeds. Um after a sport it that uh you help out King Richard III. Um financing in uh Leicester Cathedral, which is a great thing for Leicester and it brought Leicester on a next level. It gave uh Leicester many opportunities, so um I'm interested in working together.

SPEAKER_05 22:17

That's fantastic, Albina. Auntie B.

SPEAKER_10 22:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 22:21

What brought you to Freematon's Hall today?

SPEAKER_10 22:23

Well Albina is my adopted daughter. So we work as a team. Wherever I go, Albina comes with me, wherever Albina goes, I come because us both have got the same idea. How to get involved in better our city. If you Freemans can help King Richard and the children, we are part of the city. It's time for us to give a bait to the city, back in the city, especially when I'm a legend. I'm sorry, but I've been 50 years in the Leicester police.

SPEAKER_05 23:12

Wow.

SPEAKER_10 23:14

Yes. And uh I want to further my legacy into the city. I have recently started uh Auntie B in the community, which I launched at my party for celebrating the 50 years of my service. Woman, Indian woman, 50s in the policing in Leicester.

SPEAKER_05 23:41

That's fantastic, Auntie B.

SPEAKER_10 23:43

Thank you. So my interest is how can we help the city? I am at the moment involved with lots of community women groups, and I am helping them in all the ways that I can. Coffee mornings, mental well-being, anything, having worked and still work in the police, where all the laws and things, how to help a person in crisis, it's a back of my hand. But now my arms are going, my wings are going further.

SPEAKER_05 24:27

You're spreading out. Yes. You're spreading yourselves out. That's that's that's a really quite an inspirational story, Artby. Um 50 years service and how how you worked tirelessly to help the community there and and how you still want to continue helping the community within Freemasonry and especially within the Order of Women Freemasonry. Rosemary, if I can come to you.

SPEAKER_02 24:51

Um how um how long have you been in Freemasonry or been part of being part of Freemasonry through my male family since I was about six or seven, which is 1940 something. I think my father joined Freemasonry almost as soon as he could after the war. Lady Freemasonry a lot more recent. Women's Freemasonry a lot more recent. Um I have always applauded and been interested in Freemasonry because of the family connections. My husband and brother and father were members. But I met quite a few lady Freemasons on the journey and decided I was interested in that. Um spoke to one of them and joined through her. Um I like, unlike, I was born in Leicester and have lived in Leicester apart from university and when I lived in London, I've lived in Leicester all my life. In fact, I went to the school that is now the Richard III Centre, which is really Leicester, isn't it?

SPEAKER_08 26:11

The old Leicester grammar.

SPEAKER_02 26:13

When I go to the Richard III Centre, I'm thinking that was our art. So um, and it's fulfilled for me. The camaraderie, the charity work is interesting and worthwhile. As I've got older, it has given me a lot of interest and friendship, and I've enjoyed it very much.

SPEAKER_05 26:40

That's fantastic. Um Angela, you're a member of the Codelion Lodge.

SPEAKER_11 26:46

Um good morning everybody. Yeah, um my uh connection with Freemasonry is born out of lifelong interest from a small child. Um I joined uh Lodge Codelion in 2019 and um my reasons for joining were several. The main one, um you might be surprised to hear, uh I had an insatiable fear of public speaking. And I thought, what better way to overcome that than to join my news lodge? So I did that. Still working, that's a work in progress, by the way.

SPEAKER_05 27:25

Well, you're doing very well here. I have no idea the number of listeners, but it'd be more than in a lodge room.

SPEAKER_02 27:32

But you can't see them face to face, no, no, which makes a difference.

SPEAKER_11 27:38

So um, yeah, that was one of the main reasons. Also, a deep desire for knowledge uh and to um personal development and also to give back to the community. Um I have a couple of charities that are very, very close to my heart, um, and that's given me an opportunity to help raise funds towards some of those charities as well. Yes, uh I I can talk forever about the benefits. Um one of the main benefits for me is friendship, solidifying lifelong friendships, and focusing on my own network of friends as I uh become an older lady. You know, so yeah, um I I've thought we'd do a freemason really, really do.

SPEAKER_05 28:27

I think that's uh a common goal for all Freemasons, whether male or female, is that that camaraderie, that that friendship, the that commonality, the union that people have. I was talking we were talking to the widow's sons earlier, and their their biking community and the Freemasons' community, their ethos are the same. Um it seems to be coming into the light a little bit more that Freemasonry isn't just for men. Uh and and women's Freemasonry, I think a lot of listeners might be um surprised to know that women have been Freemasons for over a hundred years.

SPEAKER_11 29:08

Yes, 1908. That's a fascinating point you've you've raised there. Um I have expressed an interest for many, many years from way back to when I was a child. Um, and it was only, I'd say, over the last ten years or so that I've actually become aware of that women could join.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

Um I I was only aware for men, I don't think I knew that women could join when a child. Um it did actually start in 1908, but the initial grandmaster was a man, I think.

SPEAKER_05 29:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 29:42

It was a joining thing. It was, which it isn't now.

SPEAKER_05 29:45

No, and I understand there's going to be a new uh grandmaster joining in the in the near future um for the Order of Women's Freemasons. And we have another brother in who's just come to join us from the Order of Women's Freemasons.

SPEAKER_09 30:05

I'm Stephanie, I'm Master Elect.

SPEAKER_05 30:09

Stephanie, come and join us.

SPEAKER_09 30:14

Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 30:17

So we we've just had a uh another brother because all Freemasons are brothers. Um join us, and that's Stephanie. So Stephanie, if you'd like to introduce yourself.

SPEAKER_09 30:29

I'm Stephanie Lakin, and I've uh just been senior warden and I'm now currently mastery lex and about to go into the chair.

SPEAKER_05 30:38

So for non-masons, that means Stephanie's about to have a year in the uh chair of Solomon where she will guide and direct her lodge in the way that she wants to see it move forward, uh select charities and initiatives and ideas. Um it also means a year of work and lots of ritual, but the best thing about Freemasonry is that it's the fact that everybody has gone through the same ritual, the same movements, and they're there to help and guide. Uh Stephanie, we were just talking about the fact that women's Freemasonry has really come into the fore in the last ten years. Um, however, it's been around for well over a hundred years. What brought you into Masonry to begin with?

SPEAKER_09 31:28

Um it was um a boyfriend of mine, to be fair, and he said that I would make uh a good free and uh email to the we have been going for 60 years, and it's all 60 years.

SPEAKER_05 31:50

Many congratulations. You're just younger than my mother lodge, which is 75, so um we're we're all getting on a bit now. Um Albine, if I can bring it back to you and to Auntie B. Listening to the brothers here um and speaking about women's Freemasonry, does that give you encouragement about wanting to join a lodge and to move forward?

SPEAKER_03 32:19

Yes, uh we're already spoken about ladies developers and towards maybe it's very reassuring and uh getting the health out of finally meeting the right people and being in the right place and doing the right thing.

unknown 32:38

Brilliant.

SPEAKER_10 32:40

Yes, I am surprised with the situation that even living in the Lestal, I never thought that there existed a female Freemason. And now, with God's grace, I am very, very happy. This is the avenue that I did not know, but I know it now, that gives me a hop.

SPEAKER_02 33:14

There are about 3,000 men Freemasons in Leicester, I think. There are about 3,000 women in the whole of the country. So we're a much smaller organisation. We don't have a province, we have an area, and there is a representative of the Grandmaster for each area. But within that area, and our area goes, the Midland that goes up to Stoke and Nottingham, Birmingham, we have we travel to different lodges where we visit a lot of other lodges. A group of us all go, or even just one, and they make us very welcome. And you meet people from all over the country who are like-minded and um the essence of Freemasonry in general. That's right. And it's that camaraderie that I has been even to me that knew a lot about Freemasonry, has been exceptionally good and very supportive and has helped me a lot.

SPEAKER_09 34:27

And me, I mean my mum my mum has just passed away, and the support I've had from the ladies in large days just got me through the grief of losing my mum. Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm sorry to leave you.

SPEAKER_02 34:42

You've lost your brother as well only a month or two ago.

SPEAKER_05 34:46

So I th I think that's uh although a sad place for my brother, um it's a good place to end in terms of the fact that the the union, the the brotherhood, that is Freemasonry, that brings us together for our charitable needs, wanting to give back to our community. Um and that also it um elaborate on the fact that women's Freemasonry is becoming much more in the light of public consciousness and to bring it forward. So if you are a lady listening to this podcast and you would like to uh further your uh investigations or inquiries into Freemasonry in general, um the Order of Women Freemasonry is online and they will if you are local to Leicester, they will direct you to the local lodges and contacts there. I'd like to thank you for your time this after this morning and uh good luck with your journeys.